Coded Logic

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Posts by Coded Logic

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  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  Coded Logic

  EndofMysteries,

  
  

  I posed the question, "Why don't we have a single first hand account of Jesus?"

  
  

  To which you cited a whole list of people who weren't even born yet when Jesus died and a bunch of writings that were written decades after Jesus died. THESE ARE NOT FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS!

  Sorry for the caps, but I don't know why it's so difficult for you to understand what a firsthand account is. It's someone who actually met Jesus. NOT someone who NEVER met Jesus.

  According to the scriptures, Jesus met with the High Priest, Pontius Pilate, and Herod Antipater. This would be like meeting the Pope, the Secretary of Defense, and the President of the United States. The Jesus described in the Bible is someone who was well known and had great influence.

  That we don't have a single writing to him, from him, or about him from a contemporary of his time shows no such prominent man existed. And the contradictions in his date of birth (by no less than ten years!) and not a single record about his execution - is highly, highly suspect.

  
  

  Christianity isn't a product of Jesus. Jesus is a product of Christianity.
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  53

  Some Questions About Jesus

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why didn't jesus ever write anything?

  why are there no letters to jesus?

  no painting of jesus from that time?

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  Coded Logic

  Why didn't Jesus ever write anything? Why are there no letters to Jesus? No painting of Jesus from that time? No busts or sculptures? Why does Matthew say Jesus was born before 3BC while Luke says Jesus was born after 7AD?

  
  Why do Jesus' brothers, whom he supposedly grew up with, James and Jude, never mention that they are Jesus brothers? Why don't they speak of him as a man - but only ever speak of him as a spirit?
  
  How is it that Paul, a man who never met Jesus, became the founder of the Christian church?

  
  Why are all the Gospels written by anonymous authors in third person? Why don't we have a single first hand account of Jesus? And why can't they agree on when he was born, when he died, or the order of events that took place during his life?

  
  

  Is Jesus a man turned legend? Or just a myth all together?
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  15

  New to all of this

  by Ghiagirl in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was raised in the truth my whole life, my immediate family are jws and my moms mom is a witness as well as my fathers mom.

  other than that the rest of my family are non jws.

  i was raised very balanced, my parents never forced the truth on me or my siblings like most of my friends parents did getting baptized at ridiculous ages!

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  Coded Logic

  People are only as good as how they treat others. It's so weird to me that JWs are all hung up on "being perfect" but can't even be good to their own families.
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  43

  Jesus Saves From What? March 2015 Watchtower Article

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just skimmed the titled article on jw.org and once again the watchtower is misdirecting:.

  http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150301/jesus-death-and-resurrection/ .

  they try and make the old case that jesus saves us from being destroyed at armageddon.

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  Coded Logic

  The contract is a legal instrument used to justify giving life to humans since we are all born dead in Adam.
  - Perry

  I'm sorry, but I'm very confused by this answer. It honestly doesn't make sense to me. Can you please explain what you mean by "justify giving life to humans"? And wouldn't any such a justification be necessary before our birth?

  Also, what do you mean by "born dead in Adam"? Is this a reference to sin?

  If it is a reference to sin, why aren't those who believe in Jesus now free from sin? And if this contract justifies humans having life, then why do Christians still die?
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  31

  All Gays Are Perverts

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "scientists may never resolve exactly how much of a role nature and nurturing play in same-sex attraction.

  but one thing is clear: all humans are born with the tendency to succumb to wrong thinking and inclinations.

  --romans 3:23. a youth who desires to please god must therefore conform to his moral standards and shun immoral behavior, though doing so may be agonizingly difficult.

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  Coded Logic

  Perhaps a straight person on here could share their discomfort as a JW with thinking all gay people were bad.
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  43

  Jesus Saves From What? March 2015 Watchtower Article

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just skimmed the titled article on jw.org and once again the watchtower is misdirecting:.

  http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20150301/jesus-death-and-resurrection/ .

  they try and make the old case that jesus saves us from being destroyed at armageddon.

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  Coded Logic

  Perry,

  I was hoping you could clarify a few things for me. I apologise if my questions seem really basic but there's such a wide variety of beliefs within Christianity it's hard to know the position of anyone Christian on any given topic.

  You spoke about John 3:18 and belief. Do you believe that "belief" is the metric via which people are saved or condemned? If so, what constitutes belief?

  Also, do you think being condemned means hell (like the rich man being burned in Jesus parable about Lazarus)? Or does it mean something else?
  
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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  Coded Logic

  Humans and dogs are both "tribal" species. Tribes that work together survive. Tribes that don't work together don't survive. The genes that were beneficial for working together were more likely to be passed on. No supernatural deity required.

  And even if we didn't know the answer, it still wouldn't support your God claim. You cannot solve one mystery with another mystery. You cannot solve one unknown by postulating the existence of another unknown.

  Gods are not known to exist. Genetic mutation is known to exist. There is no contest.

  I wish to arm you intellectually, I think you should check this out, it's only 3 minutes long but I think it will give you some perspective:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytaf30wuLbQ
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  31

  All Gays Are Perverts

  by Coded Logic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "scientists may never resolve exactly how much of a role nature and nurturing play in same-sex attraction.

  but one thing is clear: all humans are born with the tendency to succumb to wrong thinking and inclinations.

  --romans 3:23. a youth who desires to please god must therefore conform to his moral standards and shun immoral behavior, though doing so may be agonizingly difficult.

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  Coded Logic

  "Scientists may never resolve exactly how much of a role nature and nurturing play in same-sex attraction. But one thing is clear: All humans are born with the tendency to succumb to wrong thinking and inclinations. --Romans 3:23. A youth who desires to please God must therefore conform to his moral standards and shun immoral behavior, though doing so may be agonizingly difficult. True, some individuals may very well be prone to homosexuality...

  . . . Similarly, a Christian cannot excuse immoral behavior by saying he was 'born that way.' Child molesters invoke the same pathetic excuse when they say their craving for children is "innate." But can anyone deny that their sexual appetite is perverted? So is the desire for someone of the same sex."

  It seems to me that the "gay issue" has really galvanized my generation (the Millennials) away from religion as a whole. I know that 2 out of 3 JW kids will "leave" the organization by the time they're young adults. But I can't help but wonder if this percentage will start dramatically rising as the WTBTS sticks to it's hard line stance.

  What are your thoughts? Anyone else leave the Society in part due to their treatment of gay people?
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  114

  Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

  by Viviane in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

  i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

  indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

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  Coded Logic

  I wrote this as a PM to budbayview in response to their comment on this thread but I figured I should share it here too for the benefit of everyone else:

  
  

  You posed the question of why there is so much "hate" when people try and justify their beliefs with faith.

  The answer to your question is really quite simple: faith is the worst possible system for coming to knowledge.
  

  Or, to put it another way, faith is the excuse people use when they don't have good reasons for believing the things they believe. To "have faith" is to be sincerely arrogant. This is not attribute anyone should ever seek.

  I believe that what a person believes MATTERS. Because our beliefs are the gatekeepers of our actions - they directly inform how we behave. And if we want to put our good intentions to positive effect then we must have a good system for making determinations about reality.

  There is not a single position - not a single belief - that can't be justified using "faith". And people use faith to justify all sorts of terrible ideas. For example, when the daughter of Travis and Wenona Rossiter became sick they sincerely thought that prayer would cure their daughter (based upon James 5:15, Luke 8:50, etc.). They believed that taking her to the doctor would show a lack of faith. Unknown to them, their daughter had diabetes and after suffering two weeks in the most horrific agony she finally passed away.

  
  Sadly, a simple shot of insulin would have saved her life.

  
  It's not that the Rossiter's we bad people. It's just that they had a bad understanding of how reality works - because of faith.

  And faith is used - sincerely - by millions of people to justify all sorts of horrible things. People use "faith" to try and suppress the rights of homosexuals. People use "faith" to try and suppress the rights of women. People use "faith" to try and suppress other people's religious beliefs and rights to freedom of speech.
  

  If you care about the well-being of yourself and others, if you care about personal freedoms like speech, religion, equality, etc. then you have a solemn duty to try and believe as many true things - and as few false things - as possible. And you have a duty to have good metrics for discriminating between the two.
  

  And therein lies the problem, because faith is the worst possible system for coming to knowledge. It can only ever be right by accident. And, all too often, the bad ideas it produces harms people in horrible ways. The Crusaders had "faith". The leaders of the Spanish Inquisition had "faith". And ISIS has "faith".
  

  Far superior qualities are intellectual honesty, epistemic humility, and a desire to know what is true. These are the backbone of science and reason. To make sure that our preconceptions aren't misconceptions.
  

  Where as faith - unjustified belief - is the exact opposite. It is arrogant, close minded, and dogmatic. It's directly responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history - and is responsible for most of the current human rights violations going on today - and that, my friend, is why I HATE IT when people try and use faith to justify their beliefs.

  
  

  -CL

  
  

  
  
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  13

  Is anything holy?

  by Half banana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is anything holy?.

  i would maintain that holiness can only come from the attitude of people ascribing something as holy.

  holiness never comes from the "holy" object, spirit or humans described as being holy..

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  Coded Logic

  Holy: specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated
  

  This first definition meets the OP as the "holiness" is applied and is not intrinsic.

  Holy: having a spiritually pure quality:

  I'm not sure I know what "spiritually pure" means. I'm assuming it refers to the motives and actions of thinking agents that meet some sort of standard. Though, what metric is used for that standard - and how you tell "spiritually pure" actions from "spiritually impure" actions - is beyond me. But something tells me it's going to be an entirely subjective and extremely broad standard.

  I do quite like this definition though. Probably comes closest to my use of the word -

  Holy: inspiring fear, awe, or grave distress: